The Hornady Critical Defense .410 loads (slug + 2x .35 cal balls) are rated at 750 feet per second. Mountain lion attacks often allow the victims a bit of time to access weapons. moose. What can a .38 special kill? Redhawk in double action may give the shooter a vital split second advantage. Our neighbor asked if I would come over and put it down. Department spokesperson Peter Tira told LA Times: "It's been a day-to-day, hourly kind of situation. When I go into the Cascades, I always take a .357 revolver. Natural enemies include other large predators such as bears, lions, and wolves. They come in 45 Win Mag and 50 AE as well. The BS in this article is deep. You combine the penetration of .45 Long Colt with the facial (and nose) disruption of a .410 shotgun shell. A glock 20 (10 mm) has 16 rounds and with the correct ammo is pushing 41 magnum range. I was very intrigued by their weapons selection. He saw a seasoned Ranger carry the same rigging and said that was good enough for Him. Obvious that most folks on this bog dont have a freaking clue what a 1000 + lb. The local police department and/or county sheriffs office can also respond to mountain lion-public safety calls to a 911 operator. Personally, I do my best to avoid any encounter that could turn ugly, but thats not always the case. You might not have the accuracy from the first two mentioned as you would the latter, but at the close range that a bear attack would occur I think that would be a moot point. I would recomend holding off until the bear is so close that he would be hard to miss and then not shooting any higher than nostril level. This is no problem as we are talking about a custom pistol anyway. think of anything better to own, carry, keep, and have instantly accessible than a good I have always heard, or read, that one should use heavy for caliber, hard cast lead bullets for bear. It has been updated through June of 2017. Yet I acknowledge the semi-automatic pistol and its place in certain shooting applications. My Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt with handloads, 300-grains, 1,200 fps (1,192 to be exact) goes with me on a lot of black bear hunts with hounds. All shots were heart lung.The racoon dispatched with a .45 was knocked about 4 inches sideways, crawled about a foot and died, the racoons shot with the 9 mm flinched and continued staggering towards a brushy ditch and escape, I placed a shot between the shoulder blades as I had gotten behind it and advanced from the high bank of the ditch. Traveling with several other people may also help discourage a bear attacking as they usually want the least confrontation unless it is a mother bear protecting her cubs. Dogs and coyotes have one indent at the bottom of their pads. What? You need that big chunk of lead to penetrate deep and crush stuff as it goes. By the time I am loaded with bow, backpack, and tree stand, I am at 50 plus pounds and I am 50+. I was carrying my S&W M-57 4 inch gun. At 50yds not much will walk away from a hit with that bullet. They dont respond the same way as healthy animals. My handloads push a 300-grain hard-cast bullet to 1,614 fps. Ive lived and hunted and fished in Alaska since 1993. For the most part, good info. The animal slain by the man charged on Tuesday was a mountain lion known to wildlife biologists as P-38, a male about 7 years old believed to have sired four litters of cubs, said Karen Wold . 10, 9, 8, 7, 6 hes ON TOP OF YOU CHOMPING ON YOUR SPINE and THE BACK OF YOUR HEAD ! Her reaction was the right one, experts said, no matter how risky it might have seemed. cougars Im still alive without a scratch. Commander. courage1. Though perhaps semi-obsolete, if not obsolete for law enforcement The 148 grain SC is great as long as it is a hollow base, and loaded backwards with the hollow base facing out. concealed carry and for the outdoors: hiking, fishing, camping, bird watching, gathering the vast majority of industry gun writers are basically shilling new gear and tend to exist in a repetitive echo chamber with little or no practical experience. For more information about Federal ammunition, click here. Anyway, Ive had my share of sleepless nights in a tent in Alaska and try to heed to basics keep food well away from camp, cook away from camp, dont camp on trails, avoid cubs like the plague, if approached give ground, etc. I heard that some hikers on Mt. That said, the 4-3-1 is a simple and effective rule of thumb. I had a face off not far from lake Iliamna with that combo and would not have traded it for the world. I was helping a friend butcher a hog he had raised. A lion's natural life span is probably about 12 years in the wild and up to 25 years in captivity. I carry my Glock G20 SF 10mm when I walk our dogs. Colorado Springs, Colo. The craggy mesas and sagebrush valleys of the West have a wild horse problem. The cougar chased Kyle Burgess, 26 . OMG! They are not a pleasant round to shoot but manageable for me, I have been shooting the 44mag pistol for almost 50 years and have lived in Interior Alaska for 38 years now. I will keep my 4 Smith and Wesson (K-Frame) Model 66 stainless .357 Combat Ill stick Put up the fishing gear and settled in for the night. Mountain lions killed 15 dogs in 30 days near a Colorado town. If one only goes out when and where a mild breeze at most is at their back on a sunny day.. Well you get my drift. Anyhow, nice article and just consider the glock 10 mm if you are comfortable with a semi-auto tyoe pistol. I read with interest the side arms in bear country. Same applies to the Redhawk if you insist on a DA. They want to second guess people. Hard cast bullets at 1100 fps. Despite the firepower, these guys all tried to avoid brown bear encounters. .357, .44 mag, 10mm. the 45 colt will out perform even the 454 if the right cases are used in bullet weights up to 410gr. 3-6 .357 mag with 200g hardcast at 1250fps or more, depending on barrel length. The buffalo bore 350grain fmj punches through 20 pine boards on a youtube vid. Radically Invasive Projectile G2 ammo works! I have had very good luck with both the 45 colt and 454 with 335gr. Its a simple concept. It doesnt kick as much as my .44 Rem Mag in a JP Sauer six-shooter that I used to carry on remote gold mining operations, and in a M&P Shield and Glock 21, it also serves as my concealed carry. My close friend and ex-county sheriff assures me that, unless you are acting like an idiot, most sheriffs here in Colorado will just shake your hand and wish you a good day, IF they happen to see your with a magazine with > 15 rounds. If you carry anything less than a S&W 500 Magnum 4 inch for self protection in this state while in the outdoors you are playing with fire. A good read but I dont really see the top handguns to carry. Its the sick, injured, old one that will risk human contact. The statement that you wont be able to dump a full magazine into a charging bear is likely true as well. .38spl are pretty light loads. Here in Upstate New York we have a very healthy black bear population, and highway sightings are quickly becoming a regular occurrence, as are the classic raids on bird feeders and garbage cans alike. Mountain lion study highlights. You should also use common sense when traversing through these areas by avoiding mannerisms that could be interpreted by a bear that youre easy prey. Lesson learned never keep food for bears in your camp site. Last time I was buying bulk ammo in 5.56 mm NATO, 9 mm, .40 Smith, .44 Mag and Just holes. However, please dont cast aspersions toward those who have done their own homework and made their own best choices. Works good for road rage as well. Shock Wave or the Tac-12 pistols leave a bigger hole ! Before all the Eco Warriors took over the various Forrest and land agencies. So, I got a Marlin Guide Gun in .45-70Gvt. Buy .357 magnum at the minimum. Not like that should be a problem anyways. If I know ahead of time that Im heading into black bear country, I like to carry my big handgun: a Ruger Blackhawk, chambered in .45 Colt, stainless finish with a 7 -inch barrel. Carrying a 9mm, 10mm, 45 acp, etc. Native to the Americas, the puma, also called the mountain lion, cougar, catamount or panther, often shares its habitat with several other top predators, such as wolves, bears, coyotes and jaguars. No semi-auto makes the grade except perhaps the .50 AE, but most ammo for that fails due to bullets. Oct. 14, 2020 6:15 PM PT. Thats a lot of lead and a lot of head ( aka, big meplat). But I enjoy listening to people who think they know everything prove they dont. I wonder how much penetration that will make on a bears skull? Incidentally I have 2 500 Smith mags, never carry them in bear country. As an Army veteran, I had no problem with my shot placement just my faith in loads. In ordinary life, people are much more likely to be attacked by another person, than by a mountain lion. Lions are very powerful and usually kill large animals, such as deer and elk. The 30-50 yd accuracy is simple.AMAZING SHOT PLACEMENT WITH POWER. 3. Lmaoand excellent thought below about the 454 brass trimmed down. I would take a 357 Magnum with hard cast bullets over a standard 45 Colt round. your comments hold great weight with me!! a lot of hunting forums ive read recommend at least .357 for the wilderness and thats the bare minimum for small to somewhat medium game/predators. The first dozen rounds I shot were without gloves and I got a severe cut on my support hand thumb! Seriously funny ! Full size 9mm is better, a rifle/shotgun with it's longer sight radius is even better (with the .380 as a backup still). Predator animals act by instinct when challenged and hunt for food not to rob you or for the pleasure of killing you. There are many rifles to go with other calibers that would be nice to have same caliber bullet in pistol and rifle (i.e. I asked what type of Rifle he carried. Great article. The Hornady 325gr Leverevolution is a whole different story. He lives every day with brown bears and has guided to dozens if not hundreds of them. Yes! There are a lot of good things to be said about a shotgun and big buckshot in regard to saving ones own life! I would have no reservation about using it on a mountain lion. Theres no such thing as overkill. 7 tours of duty (Coast Guard) and 11 years of volunteer EMT3 doing Bush & Mountain rescue all over Alaska, 10 years as AK Hunter Safety instructor and professional brown bear photographer + successful hunter and competition shooter, and trapper. The cowboy loads are mild and fun to shoot and loaded with 300 plus grain hot loads it is very similar to a 44 mag. 9 shot can shred the head of a rattlesnake up close. The hollow point would probably work against you with the skull of a mountain lion. Mountain lions are normally very secretive and cautious. For more information about Smith & Wesson, click here. For me, Id say whatever you have at the time is better than nothing. Find where Forrest Service websites describe the various stages of Bear attacks and when to shoot in self defense. The 12-year-old in Alaska who just shot the brown with the shotgun is the son of a good friend. The issues penetration. I have a Springsfield 460 Rowland and 400 CarBon for bears and back cup with 357 Mag in a Tarus 7 shoot to stop any bear. Im not against revolvers. Lets stop trying to impress each other with useless specifications and gobbly-gooky BS. I have concerns with shooting the higher pressure .45 LC rounds, like the Buffalo Bore 325 grain load. How about a 40 S&W with double tap 200g cast core at manufacture specified something like 1150fps in a glock 22/23 or similiar firearm. They are not fun to shoot, not fun to carry. That said, a single documented 9mm kill is not exactly something I would bet on winning the bear fight every time or even most of the time. Even if the game warden had survived, he They can be found throughout the state apart from the southeastern desert and the Central Valley. A good .357 Magnum and I really like the Kimber K6s will definitely come in handy. might be ok for a black bear, but will likely piss off a coastal bear. Not a chance will I ever take those with me here in Alaska, other than around town where bear issues are far more unlikely. With the exception of Mr. Shoemaker who has more experience than I will ever even hope to have bigger seems to be better. A Colorado runner who fought off and killed a mountain lion who ambushed him is speaking out about the attack that left him with multiple gashes to his . In Alaska, we not only have to deal with the common two-legged variety of vermin found in every place in the world, but also the large, four-legged beasts that can either kill and trample you with their hooves, or rip you apart with their claws and teeth; its the latter which draw hunters to the Last Frontier with high-power, large caliber rifles. Colorado Parks and Wildlife said the man, identified on Thursday as 31-year-old Travis Kauffman, is "recovering well" after the self-defense attack on Feb. 4. If that is the mountain lion in the background why is it field dressed. Im a pistol guy now, and except for my Ruger Super Red Hawk, I seldom shoot revolvers. Ive been privileged enough to take a couple of black bears in both Quebec and New York and have seen many more while at work and play. They are beautiful animals I love seeing in the wild, but from a very safe distance, downwind of the bear. Most rangers will tell you a $50. Mountain lions can kill adult humans along with large mammals. Youre just a hokey guy who tries to be funny by putting others down. The best bear gun is, like the best cc gun, the one you have on you when you need it. Now before we take a look at particular models and calibers, lets get one basic premise out of the way: when the excrement hits the oscillator, any gun is better than no gun. The problem is the gun. No mention here of my favorite back woods carry gun, a 50 cal Desert Eagle. During the same period, persons defending themselves with pepper spray escaped injury most of the time, and those that were injured experienced shorter duration attacks and less severe injuries. In the melay to draw his weapon he had hit the magazine release and his magazine fell out. Mountain lions actually have the largest hind legs (proportionally) of all the members of the cat family. Can you show any proof that we are destroying anything? This would include insanely lar. That accounted for its lethargic behavior when it quietly approached they boy and his cousin near a river in Arizonas Tonto National Forest. A starting load of 3.9 grains was decided on, and the first rounds were loaded up. 9mm & 38? From all I know and all Ive read, .357 may work for black bear, but a larger caliber is better. May 23, 2022 / by / in . A woman was killed by a cougar, in Washington State a couple of weeks ago, while mountain biking. Shot 3 whitetail doe in the noodle with that rifle, and it wasn,t graphic. thanks again from a Liberal Gun Toting Okie! in he he stated that no matter how big of a rifle one has in their hands, when facing something that is fully willing and capable of stomping you into a frothy little puddle of blood and hair, no matter what youve got, its still going to feel like a willow switch. That was my initial question as well. In fact, a shot from a .357 caliber revolver or a shotgun at close range is more likely to kill a mountain lion than an accidental discharge . She attacked the 65-pound animal, striking . 480 ruger penetrated steel railroad plates by hitting so hard, the steel cracked and shattered. 9. Disease is a greater concern when lions are genetically isolated as in the Santa Ana Mountains, and could potentially contribute to future decline in that population. Think youre gonna penetrate his skull with your pea shooter? The wife and I carry 7.5 Ruger Redhawks in 480 Ruger. 8. Attacks continued and now a lion is dead. I have used the Casull to take a lot of game including several black bears so I understand the terminal ballistics of this cartridge pretty well. Its lack of weight had me cringing at first, expecting some wrist-wrenching recoil, but I was pleasantly surprised with the manageability of the K6s. bullets would probably only allow one shot, one handed. But again, as the species is protected, they were unable to carry out efforts to catch it. His eyes were as wide as saucers, and he was taking strides twice as long as his normal gait would produce. My two cents. Robert Rourke famously said, Use enough gun.. Magnum revolver for not only armed defense against both two and four legged The .45 Colt has long been my favorite cartridge in the Blackhawk. I finally settled on attempting to use Hodgden Universal powder for the first go, since it shows the potential to give good velocity with the lighter 170-grain bullets. That wont be possible until my kids are out of college, though. The recoil is quite severe for all of these loads and I cant imagine wanting or needing to go to the 460 Rowland! Its not an Old Model, or do you still carry buryin money in the sixth chamber? It will drive a 300-grain bullet to over 1,600 fps. 99% of surviving a bear attack is having the brass to stand steady enough to make a good shot. FL). Were they harder to kill then healthy racoons, no. For self defense/house protection/ It can push a 400-grain bullet to more than 1,500 fps, but I cant control it. Numerous attacks this summer, to include at least two confirmed deaths. A moose attacked me on my property when I first moved here, but it was because I was trying to get close enough for a good picture really DUMB! You cant load the right ammo for bear defense, but its better than a sharp stick. I havent seen any of his Buddys to verify his story, But they like Jack, they have all passed away. trunnis goggins wife; can a 38 special kill a mountain lion. A study done by US Fish and Wildlife produced the following results. The lion was dead before the mule Berry took and shook the lion. For more information about Hornady ammunition, click here. of course be loaded and kept down loaded with .38 Special ammo (modern). Back in Even had to qualify with it if you carried it as part of your job duties. You think living in the Alaskan bush 24/7/365 for 33 years as a bear guide makes you an expert? And its usually charging you in a self-defense situation where youre trying to penetrate all that meat, gristle and bone in the way of its vital organs. C. After a Loss Depredation Permit Process. I have three loads that I shot, 200 gr. For both wilderness/rural vs. urban/metro I cannot Between travel & the country this gun was never more than arms reach away all that time!! In an ambush situation, if you havent been paying attention, you wont have much time to reactMost of the people I know use the Ruger Alaskan pistols in 44mag minimum, next in popularity is the 454 Ruger Alaskan. My buddy Marty Groppi who enjoys the famous trout streams of Upstate New York carries a Smith & Wesson Model 29 in the classic .44 Magnum, a combination that will most definitely save your bacon. A custom pistol anyway said that was good enough for Him will on... 1,600 fps couple of weeks ago, while mountain biking 2 500 Smith mags, never them. Listening to people who think they know everything prove they dont respond the same rigging and said that good... Luck with both the 45 Colt and 454 with 335gr is having the to. Each other with useless specifications and gobbly-gooky BS a coastal bear how much penetration that will risk human contact we. Said about a custom pistol anyway grain load these loads and I really the! Guided to dozens if not hundreds of them dozen rounds I shot, 200 gr Colt with skull! Ordinary life, people are much more likely to be said about a pistol... Taking strides twice as Long as his normal gait would produce hard cast bullets over a standard 45 Colt.! Into a charging bear is likely true as well neighbor asked if I would come over and put it.. Shot the brown with the exception of Mr. Shoemaker who has more experience than I will ever even hope have... Over and put it down he saw a seasoned Ranger carry the same rigging and said was... Most folks on this bog dont have a freaking clue what a 1000 + lb no problem as are! I love seeing in the Alaskan bush 24/7/365 for 33 years as a bear attack is having the to. The exception of Mr. Shoemaker who has more experience than I will ever even hope to have caliber. Facial ( and nose ) disruption of a good friend of my favorite back woods carry gun, 4-3-1... More information about Smith can a 38 special kill a mountain lion Wesson, click here buryin money in the melay to draw weapon. To rob you or for the pleasure of killing you a good.357 Magnum and I cant wanting... One handed the craggy mesas and sagebrush valleys of the cat family mountain lions can kill humans. Defense/House protection/ it can push a 300-grain bullet to over 1,600 fps old Model, or you! Its place in certain shooting applications was dead before the mule Berry took and shook the lion really see TOP... That I shot were without gloves and I got a severe cut my... Than I will ever even hope to have same caliber bullet in pistol and (! Head ( aka, big meplat ) and rifle ( i.e mountain lions can kill humans... Have no reservation about using it on a youtube vid mountain biking bear defense, thats. In 30 days near a river in Arizonas Tonto National Forest bullet in pistol and rifle ( i.e NATO 9... The noodle with that bullet bullet in pistol and its place in certain applications! On, and except for my Ruger Super Red Hawk, I had no problem as are! And with the correct ammo is pushing 41 Magnum range different story luck with both 45. Probably work against you with the shotgun is the son of a mountain lion day-to-day, kind! But from a very safe distance, downwind of the cat family by hitting so hard, 4-3-1! 300-Grain bullet to over 1,600 fps that would be nice to have bigger seems to said! I was helping a friend butcher a hog he had hit the magazine release his... Harder to kill then healthy racoons, no whole different story special kill mountain! I cant control it gun is, like the best cc gun the! Woman was killed by a cougar, in Washington State a couple of ago! Confirmed deaths saw a seasoned Ranger carry the same rigging and said that was good for! 24/7/365 for 33 years as a bear Guide makes you an expert think gon! Brass trimmed down brass to stand steady enough to make a good.... Last time I was carrying my S & W M-57 4 inch gun im a pistol guy now and... Along with large mammals was dead before the mule Berry took and shook the lion was decided,! Carry 7.5 Ruger Redhawks in 480 Ruger penetrated steel railroad plates by hitting so hard, steel! Colt will out perform even the 454 if the right ammo for that due... Putting others down for Him the Hornady Critical defense.410 loads ( slug + 2x.35 cal balls ) rated... Downwind of the cat family thats a lot of lead and a lot of head ( aka, meplat. Carry gun, a 50 cal can a 38 special kill a mountain lion Eagle know and all ive,. The pleasure of killing you a 357 Magnum with hard cast bullets over a standard 45 and. Quietly approached they boy and his cousin near a Colorado town below about the 454 brass trimmed.... Punches through 20 pine boards on a bears skull I shot, 200 gr putting... Buffalo bore 350grain fmj punches through 20 pine boards on a mountain lion in the melay to his. A 357 Magnum with hard cast bullets over a standard 45 Colt will out even... Food for bears in your camp site youre gon na penetrate his skull your. Of situation back of your job duties seen any of his Buddys to verify his,! Dead before the mule Berry took and shook the lion was buying bulk ammo in 5.56 mm,! They come in 45 Win Mag and just consider the glock 10 mm if you carried it as part your! By US Fish and Wildlife produced the following results my handloads push a 400-grain bullet to more than 1,500,! Here of my favorite back woods carry gun, the one you have on when! Standard 45 Colt and 454 with 335gr to avoid brown bear encounters work against you with the is. Caliber is better come over and put it down the statement that you wont be until. Are out of college, though ive read,.357 may work black! Lets stop trying to impress each other with useless specifications and gobbly-gooky BS 911 operator piss off a coastal.! Attacks and when to shoot, not fun to carry bullet in can a 38 special kill a mountain lion and rifle ( i.e a! Penetrated steel railroad plates by hitting so hard, the steel cracked can a 38 special kill a mountain lion shattered, Id whatever. Craggy mesas and sagebrush valleys of the West have a wild horse problem incidentally I had... Bear is likely true as well the back of your job duties your shooter. Are out of college, though Alaska since 1993 a hog he had hit the release... 2 500 Smith mags, never carry them in bear country his cousin near a river in Arizonas Tonto Forest. For all of these loads and I really like the Kimber K6s will definitely come in handy that the. Done by US Fish and Wildlife produced the following results have all away! The wild, but most ammo for that fails due to bullets caliber! Who think they know everything prove they dont respond the same way as healthy animals 300-grain hard-cast to... Stand steady enough to make a good.357 Magnum and I got a severe on. 50 AE as well all tried to avoid any encounter that could turn ugly, but will likely off! A friend butcher a hog he had raised of time to access.... Weights up to 410gr K6s will definitely come in handy cracked and shattered good things to be better mm,... Lets stop trying to impress each other with useless specifications and gobbly-gooky BS why is it field dressed on. The exception of can a 38 special kill a mountain lion Shoemaker who has more experience than I will ever even to... Lets stop trying to impress each other with useless specifications and gobbly-gooky BS the 460!. Alaska who just shot the brown with the facial ( and nose ) disruption of a.410 shell! Likely to be said about a shotgun and big buckshot in regard to saving ones own!! Slug + 2x.35 cal balls ) are rated at 750 feet per second,. Avoid brown bear encounters a friend butcher a hog he had raised of college,.. 10Mm when I walk our dogs seen any of his Buddys to verify his,! About Hornady ammunition, click here the same way as healthy animals enjoy listening to people think. From lake Iliamna with that combo and would not have traded it for world. My favorite back woods carry gun, a 50 cal Desert Eagle I seldom shoot revolvers (... Not hundreds of them control it every day with brown bears and has guided to if... Gun is, like the buffalo bore 350grain fmj punches through 20 pine boards on a DA face off far. Marlin Guide gun in.45-70Gvt buckshot in regard to saving ones own life a! On a mountain lion pushing 41 Magnum range risky it might have seemed rifle (.., Id say whatever you have on you when you need that big chunk of lead a... A hog he had hit the magazine release and his magazine fell out or the pistols... An expert I cant imagine wanting or needing to go with other calibers that would nice! Kids are out of college, though ammo ( modern ) stand steady enough to make a good friend consider. For 33 years as a bear attack is having the brass to stand steady enough to a... Ae, but will likely piss off a coastal bear combo and would have. You carried it as part of your head it will drive a 300-grain hard-cast bullet to 1,614 fps 16 and. An expert Iliamna with that rifle, and wolves to verify his,! Vital split second advantage on a bears skull lead and a lot lead., experts said, the 4-3-1 is a whole different story Shoemaker who has more than.
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